Author Topic: Northshore Trail Closures  (Read 10456 times)

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Offline Alistair

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Re: Northshore Trail Closures
« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2017, 07:51:26 AM »
So I did get a reply, but it was a copy paste of the generic response that CTC guru posted earlier in this thread. He did confirm that the intention was to meet with ldtr reps though.

Offline Andrew

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Re: Northshore Trail Closures
« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2017, 08:04:59 AM »
What a disappointing response.

You asked clear questions, did he respond to them at all?

Are you Ok with that?

I will donate some cash for a FOI for ya

Offline Alistair

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Re: Northshore Trail Closures
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2017, 08:28:53 AM »
Lol, you are a wind-up merchant 😁
But yeah, no questions answered so FOI it is.

Offline CKaos

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Re: Northshore Trail Closures
« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2017, 10:23:32 AM »

Offline Case King

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Re: Northshore Trail Closures
« Reply #49 on: June 14, 2017, 12:03:51 PM »
I couldn't find it either. I believe it was published by the previous DELWP or some other organisation that changed name. "Department of Conservation and Natural Resources"

Offline CKaos

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Re: Northshore Trail Closures
« Reply #50 on: June 14, 2017, 03:35:41 PM »
Yeah, different documents give it different prefixes (eg DSE) and years, so I guess it has been reviewed a few times, but they all use the same title.

Offline Alistair

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Re: Northshore Trail Closures
« Reply #51 on: June 14, 2017, 08:27:46 PM »
I've got the 2003 version. Theres not much in there to be honest.

Offline CKaos

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Re: Northshore Trail Closures
« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2017, 08:51:54 PM »
Can you flick it through to craig.lee@downergroup.com ? I figure that's where 'the rules' you posted many moons ago come from?


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Offline neb

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Offline CKaos

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Re: Northshore Trail Closures
« Reply #54 on: June 19, 2017, 08:51:13 PM »
Hi all,

Haven't had the time, nor success with what time I have had, to really make sense of where PV's policy in regard to MTB trails on public land is recorded, and if this policy does exist, where does it derive its authority from?

Andrew is correct in that Alistair has asked some specific, and justifiable questions. The response provided by PV has not addressed these questions. As such I think Alistair is entitled to contact Darren again to explain that his response has not addressed your query and to CC this to Liby.

I'm sure many of us have at least 1 specific and reasonable question to ask of PV.

Do LDTR have PV contact (email) detail available to members as a 'resource'? Liby and Darren would be a good place to start.


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Offline Alistair

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Re: Northshore Trail Closures
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2017, 07:52:30 AM »
I did reply to let them know that they had not answered any of my questions (but they knew that before sending it). PV's a bit of a black box, transparency of decision making is not in the organisational culture - but that's not the fault of our local rangers, they probably have to struggle with it on a daily basis too.


 

Offline michael_w

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Re: Northshore Trail Closures
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2017, 10:51:22 AM »
On the back of this discussion I decided to try my hand at seeking a copy of the Mountain Bike Code (CNR 1993) from DELWP. This is the response I received:

------------------------
Hello Michael.

Thank you for your recent enquiry to the Department of Environment, Land, Water and Planning Customer Service Centre.

The Department's response is:-   

The only information I could locate for you, in regards to Mountain Bike Code of Conduct. appears under Mountain Bike Australia.

The following link to the website may be of assistance to you: https://www.mtba.asn.au/membership/code-of-conduct/

If you require clarification or have a further enquiry, please do not hesitate to contact the Customer Service Centre on 136 186 between 8am - 6pm weekdays or email : customer.service@delwp.vic.gov.au
------------------------

It looks like the department has no knowledge of the offending document which PV are hanging their collective hats on. (Or they can't find it/don't want to find it?)

Offline Alistair

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Re: Northshore Trail Closures
« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2017, 09:41:33 AM »
Update. FOI has gone in and someone has apparently done an audit of the trails to record what was done during the recent works by PV's contractors.

Offline CKaos

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Re: Northshore Trail Closures
« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2017, 12:57:53 PM »
Haven't got a lot of time to spend on this ATM, but have a few thoughts that I will PM / email.  I think you really need to find a day or two to wade around in the publicly available documents, track down those that we know exist - but are hiding and digest these in the context of to move forward as advocates for sustainable access to public land for Mountain Biking in general terms. We are not unique, we all work to the same rules and we all face similar opposition.

This is a social network thread. We are a like minded group that has been motivated to challenge the actions of a body who's charter is to mange public (our) assets in an accountable fashion. Unless we all have way too much spare time and intend to tread the same pathway every time PV fail in their responsibilities to their client (us) - we need to plan a way to progress our efforts toward a enduring agreement rather than just a band aid to manage the latest 'off'.

In just a few weeks we have proven that a little bit of help, and sharing of knowledge can empower individuals to progress our collective cause. There is a lot of work in what I  mentioned in the 1st paragraph, but this doesn't have to be completed by each of us in isolation. To use the resource we have effectively we need to co ordinate how it is used.

Think of an analogy that aligns with one of our other pet topics, trail maintenance. If we all go out and independently scratch around on the trails to 'help' them better match our idea of a good ride, we get a result that lacks cohesion and direction, and in some cases is destructive.  Our work will often conflict with work being done concurrently by others, and thus diminish the overall results of our efforts.

So, does Nate need to go out every day he works on the trails with the LDTR committee to make sure the work he does is ok with all of us? NO.  But by engaging with the group regularly (monthly trail builds) and getting together to share knowledge, techniques and establish a single direction - Nate can be fairly sure that the work he does in a small group will be understood and supported by other park users.  Next week when Derek heads out with a different small group, as park users, we will struggle to see who did what work - it's cohesive, consistent and is all heading in the one direction.  But one or 2 people cannot shoulder that amount of work on their own - it must be shared, both to make it achievable and to validate its content.

Offline Alistair

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Re: Northshore Trail Closures
« Reply #59 on: July 03, 2017, 09:08:45 PM »
Totally agree Chris. Unfortunately we have a peak body that is focused on racing rather than assisting with trail advocacy (IMO) and therefore that coordination and teamwork is not happening. There has been talk of the various vic clubs coming together for a number of years now and PV, to their credit, were coming to the party around 2013ish when they put together the Guidelines for MTB on public land document (which they now seem to want to ignore). Chris Hardman is a good bloke from PV, he understands the conservation and the recreation side of their remit (he is also a MTBer himself and has been to speak to most of the clubs over the years). He was always telling us to get organised like the 4WD club of Victoria and if you look on the PV website you can see that they have their own legal MOU document, I bet they don't get pushed around like we sometimes do: http://parkweb.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/315923/Memorandum-of-cooperation-Four-wheel-drive-Victoria.pdf

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